Are We ready for a Black President?

ELENATION · 07-01-2008, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWatcher

That may be true but we are at a time in our country where we need a president to be the president of the United States of American First and foremost. so IF that means that somebody gets a sour taste in their mouth ... so be it; and to sit here as act as though mccain or clinton have any more experience that trumps Obama but just holding a senate seat is naive and preposterous. The fact is that though the leadership he has shown in just the organization that he has put together already shows such leader ship.... seriously people what do you even mean by experience .... what on this planet could possibly prepare you for the Presidency of the most powerful nation on the planet.... what possible situation is similar to the need that this country faced... Mccain and Clinton believe that they can work hard and stand up and make things happen because of who they are and who they represent.
Obama has the audacity to stand up and say that he can get things dome because we will be working just as hard and we will make the moves and the changes .... look back obama has a lot of ideas that mimic the president that took us out of the last depression .... some of his policies are similar to FDR ...( if your not aware of what he did.... look it up)

Seriously experience exsmerience. The fact of the matter is that unless the candidate was a Governor then that person is unexperienced to sit in that chair.

Bill Gates was not experienced
Sergey Brin & Larry Page were not experienced
Thomas Anderson was not experienced
George Washington was not experienced
nor were half the leaders on this planet... so give it a rest of the experience angle already its getting old and its not going to change anyones mind.

And if that is still a issue for you then by all means feel free to either vote against what you believe in or stay home on election day because he is the Democratic Nominee and thats all she wrote either fall in line or get off the train ... because if you cant see the leadership capability in that man then you are just as blind as the GOP and religions extremist themselves.

People are dying everyday over a lie the American way of life is disappearing by the oil barrel and you want to have useless debate about experience when experience up to this point has counted for nothing. Be real...
Bush is on his way out and trying for force us into another war that he wont even have to deal with and you want to talk about experience. People should be ashamed to look themselves in the mirror. let alone question a man who has build one of the largest and most diverse organizations in this country from the ground up using the exact model he wished to use on the entire country.

What are you so afraid of? ..... that he may actually do it?

peace love and fish grease....

got your back bjean

Hey, FYI,your comment about the sour taste in your mouth , not needed, I specifically said that I was just making a point about the Kennedy's and it has nothing to do with Obama, I was just sharing a little of my history with BJean, I particularly like Obama much better than any Kennedy. I think I said that too.
YOu think that nothing could prepare one for the presidency of this country? seriously? then why don't you and I run? I'm sure that even as inexperienced as we are , we could do a perfectly good job!! funny.... experience is definitely not the only factor that we must consider, but it is indeed one of the factors, that is my opinion and the opinion of many americans, so I don't think it should be disregarded completely as you said. You can do that if you want but let's face not everyone feels like you.
Hey I respect your opinions and your views, I really do, but just because they are your views and you may feel strong about them doesn't mean they are all accurate and that we will all sit here and believe them as if they were the gospel and just agree with you and stop debating... I don't think that's going to happen, as you said it yourself, you are not going to change anyones mind either, debate has been good...., frankly I don't agree with half of what you say and that should be ok shouldn't it? , or am I blind as the GOP and religious extremists because I can't completely agree with you? Let's agree to disagree.
Peace and Love right back at ya!

BJean · 07-01-2008, 09:59 AM

Watcher: Really? You find the premise that we are mostly all of mixed races to be irrelevant? And the idea that none of us can legitimately claim one small part as our genetic idenity is irrelevant? Why does that crack you up so much? Is it because you don't believe that it is ever going to be the norm or is it because so many of us don't have a clue what our genetic makeup is, or is it something altogether different?

And obviously you agree, plain. Can you explain it to me? Or do you just extend kudos to TheWatcher because you're happy because you think he "got" me? I'm always interested in reading your posts because it seems like we definitely agree on some issues or parts of some issues but your reasoning is usually different from mine, and you don't seem to respect my posts. Any input could be enlightening for me and I would appreciate it.

TheWatcher · 07-01-2008, 11:01 AM

ELENATION

i know that sometimes i respond to the topic and end up sounding like a personal dig so i apologize for coming across like that.

That being said ok let me stop dealing with extremes .... yes there is things that can prepare you for leadership roles ... but no there is nothing that can prepare you to deal with a 10 trillion dollar debt, a unjust war. it is something that takes alot of people to collectively think and come up with plans to correct theses issues.. No amount of experience can prepare you for that ...to be honest i only really said what i said because im just sick of seeing the experience argument because its unfair and untrue. So i guess i was responding to the experience thing and not you...

I welcome opposing opinions but i have had a problem since HS i don't debate softly... i use strong and sometimes overbearing statements and viewpoints. and yes i do get passionate and say some things sometimes... i assure you that the only reason that they com across as they do is because we are writing and not in person....im a teddy bear that loved everybody... a new age hippy if you will ... yea i may lack tact at times but i have waisted too much of mu life trying to change who i am ... its time for me to just accept me for me( seriously there a long story there)
so i guess sorry if i have offended in the past and sorry in advance cause ill probably offend in the future...

And lastly i understand that you probably dont agree with anlot of my views... we have lead different lives have had different upbringings and vastly different experiences... in honesty i dont really need you to agree with me i need you to give me a reason to think differently.... but i am very opinionated so... arguments sometimes ensue.

I would run but i wouldn't vote for me .... i have a very hard line stance of how to deal with our enemies ... that really make me glad that i will never be president. shoot elect me .. and ill add a few stars to the flag.

Bjean Thats not exactly what i said at all i am speaking from my experience. and there has never been a situation when i was with any of biracial friends family members or otherwise that have strong ethnic features that were addressed as being White ... 9 out of 10 times out right they are addressed as being black...or asian or hispanic.... period ... the one out of ten time the enlightened individual would try to get some idea of what the persons genetic make up was.

as for having you i just thought i would throw out a long post you said you weren't able too....

by the way you two sorry for getting into your convo its hard to tell that im ear hustlin in forum format

ELENATION · 07-01-2008, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWatcher

ELENATION

i know that sometimes i respond to the topic and end up sounding like a personal dig so i apologize for coming across like that.

That being said ok let me stop dealing with extremes .... yes there is things that can prepare you for leadership roles ... but no there is nothing that can prepare you to deal with a 10 trillion dollar debt, a unjust war. it is something that takes alot of people to collectively think and come up with plans to correct theses issues.. No amount of experience can prepare you for that ...to be honest i only really said what i said because im just sick of seeing the experience argument because its unfair and untrue. So i guess i was responding to the experience thing and not you...

I welcome opposing opinions but i have had a problem since HS i don't debate softly... i use strong and sometimes overbearing statements and viewpoints. and yes i do get passionate and say some things sometimes... i assure you that the only reason that they com across as they do is because we are writing and not in person....im a teddy bear that loved everybody... a new age hippy if you will ... yea i may lack tact at times but i have waisted too much of mu life trying to change who i am ... its time for me to just accept me for me( seriously there a long story there)
so i guess sorry if i have offended in the past and sorry in advance cause ill probably offend in the future...

And lastly i understand that you probably dont agree with anlot of my views... we have lead different lives have had different upbringings and vastly different experiences... in honesty i dont really need you to agree with me i need you to give me a reason to think differently.... but i am very opinionated so... arguments sometimes ensue.

I would run but i wouldn't vote for me .... i have a very hard line stance of how to deal with our enemies ... that really make me glad that i will never be president. shoot elect me .. and ill add a few stars to the flag.

Bjean Thats not exactly what i said at all i am speaking from my experience. and there has never been a situation when i was with any of biracial friends family members or otherwise that have strong ethnic features that were addressed as being White ... 9 out of 10 times out right they are addressed as being black...or asian or hispanic.... period ... the one out of ten time the enlightened individual would try to get some idea of what the persons genetic make up was.

as for having you i just thought i would throw out a long post you said you weren't able too....

by the way you two sorry for getting into your convo its hard to tell that im ear hustlin in forum format

Oh Watcher, after reading this post, I can only say.... I love you!

Thank you for your explanation, please know that we may not agree on every issue, but we do agree on others, and what you said in this post about experience I also agree for the most part and you said it very eloquently.
And when you said.....
I would run but i wouldn't vote for me .... "i have a very hard line stance of how to deal with our enemies ... that really make me glad that i will never be president. shoot elect me .. and ill add a few stars to the flag."
That's when I fell in love....

:biggrin2:

green · 07-01-2008, 12:26 PM

Yep, it has always struck this Canadian as really odd that if you are bi-racial you inevitably will, by default as it were, be judged to be a member of the lower status race. Thus we see Tiger Woods being considered to be black and a singer-performer like Lena Horne whom, they say, had little more than a few drops of black blood being viewed as black.
What is also quite interesting is that the darker races continue to impose a sort of self-loathing judgement on themselves. A close friend of mine is a middle-aged black Jamaican woman. She happens to be quite dark herself but she has told me that back home the lighter members of her family would, once they reached adulthood, move away from associating with the darker members. She said that this was generally true in Jamaica: light family members avoid dark brothers and sisters. This is, it strikes me, a kind of apartheid which is being practiced inside families. I know that when I was visiting India I got to read those famous marriage ads where "light skin" is listed as one of the items which makes the potential mate more attractive to those families searching mates for their offspring. This would indicate that we are a long way off from colour blindness. Too bad! The colour of anyone's skin is just the luck of the genetic deck and not a badge of merit or lack thereof.

plain · 07-01-2008, 07:02 PM

Hey Green, just curious....Do you think race relations in Canada are better than in the US?

BJean · 07-01-2008, 08:42 PM

green kinda straightened out my meaning a little. I get what you're saying Watcher and I meant to agree with your post, as green did, and there again the written word is not always interpreted as intended.

My other point being that the very people who put labels on others, happen to be just as mixed racially as those they have judged to be one race or other.

That one drop of blood thing that used to be in the Virginia Constitution really made my blood boil. Wonder if it is still lurking there...

I believe that open forums like this that encourage these kinds of discussions can be very helpful to some people who have never really thought about it.

When I lived in Canada, I did not observe the racial discrimination that I have seen in the lower states. I was in Quebec Province though. green's further west I think, if that has any bearing.

plain · 07-01-2008, 09:33 PM

Yeah, I'm curious. Seems like there's racial strife worldwide. I was talking with some relatives from Australia, and they made some derogatory comments about the Aboriginal peoples there. I was kinda shocked.

green · 07-02-2008, 11:02 AM

Wow! This is a tough question to tax my morning brain with but it is an interesting qestion. At one time, when I was must younger I would say that Canada does it best and it is true that on those international poles Canada always shines as the star. It is true that most Canadians would be content (the question they always seem to eventually ask, eh) to have Muslims, atheists or blacks living nextdoor. And I think we really do feel this way as long as the Muslim, Atheist or black do all the good neighbour stuff. My own street is a case in point: on it we have Muslims, Poles, Canadians, Greeks, Italians, Koreans and I am the token Canadain atheist. We also have blue collar workers and a university prof and his wife, a lawyer, and everything in between, included suspected dope dealers. A lot of variety concidering that this city street is one long city block long. What seems to have made this microcoosm work is that people are quiet but friendly towards each other. No grudges have been imported into the street. Another think that helps, I believe, is that this is a street with front porches, People like to sit on them and observe the rest of us. This leads to talking and talking leads to friendliness.
Sadly, there is one group who do see to be having a hard time of making it in Canadian society: young black men. They join clubs, obtain illeagle firearms, and seem to hate everybody but themseves. They jostle people in malls trying to pick knife fights. It is a really sad state of affairs. These young men had never been a force to be reckonded with before but because our immigration rules permitted nannies to eventually apply for citizenship status these pleasant, hardworking woman were eventually allowed to import their offspring who aere by now well into their teens. The out of control black teenager phenomenum is only about 2-3 decades old but noboy knows much want to do about it. These kids have managed to turned a generation of carefully raised non-racists into racists by their behaviour. And of course the endless refrain is blame whitey.
Well, while it is true that Canada had displayed cruel racial policies towards all of her non-white citizens in earlier eras, apologies had been made and these folks, the Japanese, Koreans, South Asians did manage to ignore these insults and go on and profit from living in this country. Too, Canada gave succor to American slaves. Once you reached Canada you were pretty much home free. Our angry black youth seem to have their roots in Jamaica. This anger really is a pity and is pershaps specious; there is enough room for everyone in this large, cool country.

green · 07-02-2008, 11:05 AM

Ooops, sorry for the wall of text. I really didn't mean for that to happen. Argh!

BJean · 07-02-2008, 12:58 PM

I'm curious green. Why do you think that there is a Jamacian black teen problem? Do you think that they are really angry individuals because of their perceived plight in life in general, or are they angry because of the way they actually are treated? Or do you think that they are mimicking some of the gang behavior that is so heavily reported in the mainstream media in the U.S.? Since gangsta rap and all that are really popular now. Do you think that has anything to do with it?

Or is your guess (I'm assuming a guess) that it is due to something quite different?

green · 07-02-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BJean

I'm curious green. Why do you think that there is a Jamacian black teen problem? Do you think that they are really angry individuals because of their perceived plight in life in general, or are they angry because of the way they actually are treated? Or do you think that they are mimicking some of the gang behavior that is so heavily reported in the mainstream media in the U.S.? Since gangsta rap and all that are really popular now. Do you think that has anything to do with it?

Or is your guess (I'm assuming a guess) that it is due to something quite different?

Well, for starters, all teenagers are upset and angry. This is something which goes along with changing hormones and is a phenonomen which has been pretty extensively documented. The teenage years are when the brain undergoes a huge amount of alteration during its development and as any parent can tell you teenagers do have very volatile emotions. This is why many countries, this one included, have a different series of punishments, ones which are less severe, for teenage criminals.
Teenagers do turn to listen to and learn from their peer groups, not their families. Teenages may regard all of this as living in one giant comic book and attach little if any importance or sense of reality to all the murder and bloodshed. They will follow what goes on south of the border: we so often do. If you have absorbed negative messages about yourself it is easy to be drawn in by the messages of impowerment and belonging given out by the gangs.
Also these guys do get a poor sense of their own value. Most of them come from poor and fatherless homes. Not coming from a two parent family seems to be a severe draw back the experts are now recognizing and coming from poverty is always a drag.
Black kids are tending to act out more and then they get blamed more and then this is blamed on endemic racism and sometimes, just to complicate matters up a little more, the kids didn't do but were blamed anyway out of lowered expectations. This has got to hurt and to make the kid feel much more bitter.
I don't know what the situation is and I don't know what it is going to take to get over it, and I don't know why the other notable by difference in skin colour minorities were able to succeed when the black brothers were not. My hunch is that it has to do with people staying together in families. Strength in numbers, eh.
Anyhow, come to Toronto and you will meet a lot of very nice folks in all ethnic groups. This was a long post for me to say that I am kind of baffled about the reasons for these matters.

BJean · 07-02-2008, 04:50 PM

Well you don't sound baffled. More like you have a pretty good grip on it.

Of course I don't expect you're a sociologist doing all sorts of studies on the problem. But I always enjoy hearing about your homeland and your assessment of situations.

Thanks for your response.

I trust you're feeling a little better?

**Jack** · 07-06-2008, 06:31 PM

Here's BBC view on the candidates changing positions:

BBC NEWS | Americas | US candidates practise their U-turns

plain · 08-28-2008, 11:21 PM

Wow.....although I remain independant, I will say that Obama gave a fantastic speech. He really knocked it out of the park. I liked his aggressive energy stance, and that's the key issue for me (since I believe that energy has led directly to the downturn of the economy).